Finding inspiration in adversity — with George Sandbach from Sandy’s Piano Bar

In the latest edition of The Growth Journals, George Sandbach talks to me about building his piano bar brand, Sandy’s which started out in Oxford in 2017. He talks about the importance of a laser-focus on delivering high-quality experiences and how he has remained positive despite the hospitality industry being seriously impacted by Covid.

Here are the takeaways from my chat with George:

• Create an environment of entrepreneurship within your team — make them feel like it is their business too
• Have faith in your product and trust the process — it often takes time to pick up traction so be patient
• Challenges and adversity can breed creativity and innovation — take this opportunity to try out new things, even if they aren’t immediately revenue-driving
• Don’t feel like you need to do it alone — ask for help and get other people involved who complement your skills set

“I always thought there was a market for a nicer venue catering to young professionals — they are the forgotten crowd in Oxford”

Tell me about the story behind Sandy’s Piano Bar.

I worked as the Manager in a bar called The Oxford Wine Cafe that my Dad and I opened together about 8 years ago. It was open until about midnight and we used to try and go out for drinks after work but there was nowhere really to go. Oxford is such a student-heavy place with two universities, the only places open after midnight were either bars that were closing in half an hour or nightclubs. I always thought there was a market for a nicer venue, catering to young professionals. They are kind of the forgotten crowd in Oxford. And then one night I was in Piano Kensington having some whiskies with the owner and he said why don’t you make it into a piano bar. So I did, even though I knew nothing about music or cocktails!

Were there any learnings that you took from starting The Oxford Wine Cafe that you brought forward to Sandy’s?

Yes, there were tonnes. When we opened our first wine bar I worked behind the bar. And then I was thrust in at the deep end as I started managing the Jericho site. It was more about learning as you go but I really developed my managing style. And I think that is such an important thing especially in an industry like hospitality that has very high staff turnover. Learning how to manage different characters is key to keep them engaged and motivated.

Understanding the importance of your staff and treating them well is clearly very important at Sandy’s. What do you think you do differently from others in the industry?

I incentivise my team massively. When we were starting up I made sure it was always “we are doing this”, not “I am doing it”. Each member of the team at the start had a different department to run with their own responsibilities, like music, staff, bar, etc, and I overlooked it all. They were also incentivised financially based on takings — so if we hit certain takings per night they would get a bonus. Then with the other bar staff I would give them the freedom to run certain nights of the week, so on Tuesdays I would say this is your night to do whatever you want, go to promoters, give discounts to certain clientele. They would come to me for example saying they had a load of MBA students and wanted to give 30% discount. We would work together to figure out how we can make it profitable to give away that amount of margins (only using certain alcohols etc) and then the night would run. They really enjoyed being involved and it keeps them loyal because they feel like its their business too.

“I must have spent about £400–500 on marketing over the past 3 years. I just don’t really believe in it”

The Oxford nightlife as you say is a fairly saturated market, so how did you get the name out there when you launched?

I didn’t spend much money on marketing. We had a strong Instagram and Facebook set up. We did lots of events on Facebook, but really it was word of mouth. I must have spent about £400–500 on marketing over the past 3 years. I just don’t really believe in it. I think if people have a good time and leave good reviews online then word of mouth gets around quickly. We are the highest rated bar in Oxford on Facebook and Google. The key was delivering quality and having staff who were super friendly. When you walk in and someone greets you really warmly it creates a feeling that you belong there. In Oxford and in other smaller places I think word of mouth is very powerful.

“You’ve just got to believe in your product and have faith that your product is good”

That’s interesting as one of the biggest mistakes I hear from new founders is spending too much on marketing with minimal or no ROI. I think it partly comes down to a fear that your product won’t get traction once it’s launched.

That’s the battle I had at the beginning, constantly worrying. I remember leaving Sandy’s at around 9pm with about ten people there, walking down to the high street with my head in my hands thinking what have I done? Then I would come back an hour later and it’s full. So I told myself, just stick with the process. You’ve just got to believe in your product and have faith that your product is good. If you are just running a business for the sake of running a business you aren’t going to get there.

“I wanted to do everything myself and actually asking for help is such a strength not a weakness”

Were there any other moments like that or other challenges you faced?

Yes. Decor is always a hard one. At first I thought less is more but I was wrong! I wanted to do everything myself and actually asking for help is such a strength not weakness. I have got a lot better at asking for help and delegating things that I know I’m not good at to people who are good at it. So with the interiors, I got someone in who would give good tips on what we should do. It took about a year to get it exactly how I wanted it to be. We’ve added some cool trees with lights and it’s looking on point now. But that was a big learning curve.

How important has customer feedback been in how you have grown Sandy’s?

It’s hard because we get a lot of feedback at 1am! We do a lot of Instagram polls which have been really useful as they are easy for people to get involved in. For example we were doing a new glassware range and all the staff had different opinions so I put loads of pictures on Instagram asking which people preferred and used that to make a decision on which ones to go for. And actually some of the glasses chosen were ones I didn’t like! I think family is also a really useful source of feedback because they don’t hold back and my family is in the trade anyway. But sometimes we will completely disagree. Like I wanted to start a mulled wine pop-up out of one of our locations during Covid and my family said it was pointless and I wouldn’t make any money. I did it anyway and made a lot of money in two weeks! People’s feedback is good, listening to it is really important and then just use it to make your own decisions.

“The older crowd will hear about Sandy’s via word of mouth, the younger generation will hear about us via Tik Tok or Snapchat”

You mentioned Instagram being really helpful to collect feedback. How integral is it to promoting Sandy’s and engaging with your customers?

Really important. Being “instagrammable” is key isn’t it. Especially when you are out late and you want to show off to your friends, which is basically what Instagram is for! Having something to film is really important. If you see someone having a good night on your Instagram and it looks cool and different, it becomes a talking point. It’s basically free marketing. It’s also good to engage, people often send us a question or try to book through there too. But I think it’s becoming more diluted as a platform and new things keep cropping up, like Tik Tok. The 20 year olds who are using Tik Tok might be our customers in the future. And even Snapchat, we thought went out of fashion, but it’s still used by the younger generation. It’s important to keep on top of these trends to engage potential clients in the future. The older crowd will hear about Sandy’s via word of mouth, the younger generation will hear about us via Tik Tok or Snapchat.

Let’s move onto your venture to London. You obviously started in Oxford and decided to launch a second location in London at the beginning of this year. What made you decide that you wanted a second location?

We had been looking into a second location for a while in places like Bristol and Cheltenham, but couldn’t find the right site. We looked into London because we knew a lot of people there, we knew what we do in Oxford would work just as well in London and we could charge a bit more for it. Also because we knew how to do it we could just replicate the site quite easily. Obviously with what happened with Covid we didn’t get as far with it as we had hoped to with our London bar. Naturally it started off quiet when we opened and was starting to get busy. You worry a bit at the beginning, you have friends saying ‘it’ll be fine’, deep down you know it’ll be fine because what you are doing is a good product. It’s just a matter of time, which we didn’t get unfortunately.

Obviously both bars had to be closed for lockdown. What is going to happen to them going forward?

The London bar won’t be opening again. We had it rent free until July to help us through the beginning which was always going to be tough. We already owe £90k rent which we don’t have the money for. If we try again we’ll need £40–50k worth of cash flow so that’s already into the £100k+ just to get started, which as a small business we just don’t have. So I’ve been emptying out the site and we’ll be closing that by January. The Oxford bar will open in the new year and we are still keen to open new places. The aim is getting out of London and going to the large towns — Exeter, Bristol, Cambridge, Bath — where I feel there is a market for Sandy’s. It’s a bit easier, lower risk, but you can still make good money. I’ve already got a full bar worth of furniture and glassware so it needs to go somewhere!

“When you do the hard graft and see success it’s worth it but when you have to shut down after 5 weeks of trade, it’s pretty tough”

And how did you find that? You clearly put so much blood, sweat and tears into that place, and then to see it close must have been hard.

Because it has been such a slow and gradual process, I sort of think ‘it is what it is’. Some people are in a lot worse places. I still have a business and I can start the events side of it back up again. Losing a lot of money is hard. When you do the hard graft and see success it’s worth it but when you have to shut down after 5 weeks of trade, it’s pretty tough.

You mentioned your events business, Sandy’s On The Move, which is a portable bar with live music service. How did you come up with this idea?

We found people started trying to book for 100+ people which we often couldn’t cater for. And I thought it would be good if you can just take the bar somewhere. So we decided to buy a bar, a van, a portable piano, and set up Sandy’s On The Move. We go to weddings, corporate events, festivals, and we tailor each event to the person. For example, we are doing a cricket festival which is mainly beers, wine and G&Ts. And then we’ll go to a wedding and we’ll do champagne and sparkling wine or an espresso martini bar. And we also provide live music, so our pianist will come along and we’ll set up the grand piano and he’ll take requests from the guest like he would in the bar.

Would you consider having one Sandy’s flagship bar and then scaling up the events business on the side as it brings with it much lower overheads than another bar?

It is definitely something we can do and something I’ve thought about a lot. Even after the first year that part of the business was profitable. The challenge is getting the staff in order to do it, and also getting the clients. There are a lot of companies out there doing this sort of thing so how can you differentiate yourself? It’s quite a diluted market so we are just trying to capture Oxfordshire which is good enough for me at the moment. If it takes off then great, but who knows after this summer. We will have to wait until summer 2022 and see.

During lockdown you started a podcast called Chatting Wine. Tell me a bit about that. Why did you decide to start podcasting?

During lockdown a few people were asking questions on The Oxford Wine Company account and we thought why don’t we do a Q&A with Ted Sandbach [George’s dad who is an established figure in the wine industry]. We did it and 1,200 people tuned in to watch it! So I thought it would be cool to do a podcast and a few of my friends had said they wanted to learn a bit more about wine. So I bought some equipment and started contacting people I knew in the wine trade — reporters, sommeliers, masters of wine, magazine writers. And I started a series around ‘A Guide To’ focussed on the basics of wine — A Guide To Bordeaux, A Guide to Australia, etc. They were 20 minute podcasts, short and sweet and perfect to listen to during a 5k run — when they were a thing! Financially it’s not that viable but it was something that I really enjoyed doing and it kept my mind off the other stuff that was going on.

Do you think you’ll start something outside of the wine industry?

I think I would. It’s all sales ultimately. You’re still selling a product, it might be in a bar or a product online. As long as you are doing something you are passionate about then you’ll always be ok. The idea of the product needs to be right, but if you believe and love what you do then you’ll make it work.

And finally, what does the future look like for Sandy’s Piano Bar now?

I think we’ll try and open the Oxford bar in April when summer comes along and we can use the outside seats a bit more. Really we need to get to a point where social distancing isn’t a thing so the vaccine is crucial for us. And then we’ll try to expand to larger towns and small cities. The aim was 10 bars in 10 years, but that will be slowed down quite aggressively. Maybe 5 bars in 7 years — but that doesn’t roll off the tongue quite as nicely!

Now for the quick fire round! I’ll ask you a series of questions and you respond with the first thing that comes to mind…

Who’s your favourite sportsperson and why?

Joss Butler because he’s so flair.

What would you most like to change about the industry you are in?

The staff turnover and staff pay.

If you were an alcoholic beverage what would you be and why?

Vodka pineapple. Quite a fun drink and you don’t really taste the vodka.

What’s been your single biggest takeaway from covid?

Appreciating what you have.

If you want to find out more check out Sandy’s website or their Instagram page. Well worth a visit when it reopens next year — a guaranteed great night out!

And check out my other interviews for The Growth Journals here!